Tune in to hear from Jason Howell, founder of the Jason Howell Company, a family wealth management firm that specializes in helping community stakeholders feel good about their money. He's a former US congressional candidate, a Certified Financial Planner, Certified Private Wealth Advisor, and Chartered SIR Counselor.
Gabe Rissman00:09
Hey everyone, welcome to YourStake YourStory. We are a video series with advisors for advisors focused on highlighting the best practices of advisors in the values aligned investing space. So I'm here today with Jason Howell, super excited to have you on. Thanks, Jason. Actually, I had the pleasure of joining one of Jason's podcasts in the past, and I'm happy to have him come on this one. Jason is the founder of Jason Howell company, a family wealth management firm that specializes in helping community stakeholders feel good about their money. He's a former US congressional candidate, Certified Financial Planner, certified private wealth advisor and chartered Sri counselor. So I am excited to get into that former US congressional candidate part but alright, we'll do it start earlier. Can you tell me a little bit about your early beginnings, your background, your origin story? Where'd you grow up? How'd you get started? And so a little bit about the journey that led you to becoming a financial advisor.
Jason Howell01:12
Sure, happy to and thanks for having me, Gabe. Well, long story. So I've spent most of my life here in Northern Virginia, over 30 years now. But I was born in the west coast. So I used to be cool. I always tell people, if I actually, we actually stayed where we were in California, then I probably would have been friends with the guys at Green Day. And my older sister would have been friends with Gwen Stefani, and she would have endorsed me instead of you know, Gavin Rossdale. But we moved, unfortunately. My parents are from the Caribbean. And so they were immigrants, and immigrated to California where I was born. Two countries, so St. Lucia, for my mom and Trinidad and Tobago for my dad.
Gabe Rissman01:58
Amazing. I live right next to it. Trinidad, he roti place and it's incredible. So we'll have to cover that off.
Jason Howell02:05
When I visit you were going
Gabe Rissman02:07
Sounds good. Keep on going.
Jason Howell02:11
Yeah, so anyway, I mean, they, you know, I was, you know, born in California, were there five years, and we moved a little bit around, and then my dad wanted to go spend some time with his father again. So we moved to Trinidad. And we were there for five years. And what that gave me eventually, was that feeling of what an immigrant feels like when they return and so I got back in eighth grade. And we came to Virginia, and I had to figure out what shoes were the cool shoes to wear, whether flag shoes or white shoes, I didn't know you had to roll up your pants. And so I rolled them up and cuffed him, because that's what you did in 1987. And just, you know, assimilated back into American culture. And it was it was really neat to have that experience because it just gives you one additional sort of social feel for others who come to this country and are blindsided by the culture. So that was a nice win, though, at the time it was it was just a little difficult. But we're just happy to be back. For sure. And so my, like I said, grew up in mostly in Northern Virginia, and decided to major in accounting, because I took accounting in high school, and it seemed really easy. And it wasn't even on computers, we were just doing it, you know, on Ledger's and just seeing this is easy. And there were four pages in the newspaper of accounting positions. So I said, my I'll just major in this. And so I did, and found that it wasn't as easy when I got into college, but decided not to quit and to go ahead and do it because I had read that most entrepreneurs started as accountants, so like, Oh, I'll, that's exactly what I want to do. And so Yeah, so anyway, I mean, they, you know, I was, you know, born in California, were there five years, and we moved a little bit around, and then my dad wanted to go spend some time with his father again. So we moved to Trinidad. And we were there for five years. And what that gave me eventually, was that feeling of what an immigrant feels like when they return and so I got back in eighth grade. And we came to Virginia, and I had to figure out what shoes were the cool shoes to wear, whether flag shoes or white shoes, I didn't know you had to roll up your pants. And so I rolled them up and cuffed him, because that's what you did in 1987. And just, you know, assimilated back into American culture. And it was it was really neat to have that experience because it just gives you one additional sort of social feel for others who come to this country and are blindsided by the culture. So that was a nice win, though, at the time it was it was just a little difficult. But I was just happy to be back. For sure. And so my, like I said, grew up in mostly in Northern Virginia, and decided to major in accounting, because I took accounting in high school, and it seemed really easy. And it wasn't even on computers, we were just doing it, you know, on Ledger's and just seeing this is easy. And there were four pages in the newspaper of accounting positions. So I said, I'll just major in this. And so I did, and found that it wasn't as easy when I got into college, but decided not to quit and to go ahead and do it because I had read that most entrepreneurs started as accountants, so like, Oh, I'll, that's exactly what I want to do. And so I'll keep at it. So got through accounting, did accounting for eight years, and was not necessarily happy doing accounting for eight years. But that's the only kind of job where I could be compensated. So I didn't, I didn't leave. And on the side, I ended up working with musicians. And so this is the part that let me cut my teeth on actually being a manager of finances and people by working with independent musicians. I had started doing this when I was in college, I was director of concert programming at George Mason University. And I booked my first band at a community college where I attended before I went to the University. And that just made me feel like this is the coolest thing. I picked up the phone. And this cool group of guys with musical equipment and PAs just showed up. But it was the greatest thing. And so I did it at George Mason. And when I graduated, I did it as a business manager and as a personal manager for independent bands. So this is what I was doing on the side while I was being a boring accountant. And it was a lot of fun for me it was my first business was Jason's accounting and music firm which is why I own Jason Howell.com because I bought it in 1999.
Gabe Rissman03:47
Keep on going. Wow. Yeah, that's a a great time for the dot coms.
Jason Howell05:08
Yeah, it was I should have purchased cell phone.com, or something that would have made a lot of money. But at least I do own my name. So I'll take it. But after, after a number of years in accounting, I eventually left I got into some staffing. And that was my first opportunity to really get into sales and learn the other side of business, especially learning that the people in marketing were told the same story that most CEOs or marketing people think, Wait a second, what's happening here? Total lie to me, I mean it all of us. And so anyone in business, most of people like you are CEOs. So that's how they sell you. I think it'd be cool.
Gabe Rissman05:49
Yeah.
Jason Howell05:49
Anyway, I got that experience. And that was terrific. But that, you know, was juxtaposed with this time where we were in American US history, and in financial history, which was the financial crisis. So I started there in 2006. And we had our crash, you know, in 2008, I was still there, our firm was merging with Ron staad, our office was moving, my father passed away, all in 2009. And so whereas I used to place financial professionals in positions for a fee, full time, you know, positions, that just evaporated, it went away. And the only opportunities there were to work with staffing, folks, were for part time or for hourly, or temp jobs, and I didn't do temp, I did permanent. And so I figured I could make zero at home. And I'll go ahead and just spend some time in the house where my father was my father, my sister and I lived together. And I just wanted to. And so I was there. And when your father passes away, you kind of just want to be impactful, you want to you want to be meaningful. And so I decided to finish a book I was working on. Remember, this is the financial crisis. And so as a headhunter, you're either meeting with potential clients to hire your candidates, or you're meeting with potential candidates to be hired. And when there's a recession, there are a lot more candidates than there are clients who are hiring, because I was meeting with a lot of candidates. And these candidates were all worried whether they had a job, or were already laid off from a job. They're like, Jason, I don't know what's going on, like this economy. And this was like, it was neat. It was a precursor to being a financial planner, because I'm sitting in a small room with a document on the desk, asking what they want to do with their lives. And so in the midst of those conversations, I wanted to encourage them, and I kept telling them, Listen, this is America, we've had ups and downs before, as long as you can provide value, you're going to find a job that's going to satisfy you. And I just kept saying this over and over and over. Well, I should write a book about this. And when my dad got sick, in December of '08, I decided I, I need to do stuff. And so I started writing it. I didn't finish it until after he passed away. It was an audio book, because my friends were musicians. And so they could record they couldn't help me publish. And so the book was called "America: Still the land of opportunity". It's still available on Amazon and Barnes and noble.com, like five bucks. And that's the, that's when I learned how to do Kindle stuff, which wasn't until 2011. So for about a year and change, it was just available as like a three CD set. It was all about you know, be
Gabe Rissman08:47
You keep those CDs in a special drawer and, and cherish them?
Jason Howell08:50
Well. I only have about four copies of the book left and they're in shrink wrap. So I haven't like I've just kept them in the shrink wrap.
Gabe Rissman08:56
Yeah.
Jason Howell08:57
And you know, who helped me with that? Recording Artists helped me record a different one helped me order the packaging. So it was a real like, you know, indie rock star product, essentially. But after that was kind of done, I still had the Jones to be impactful. And that's when in 2011, when the Congress was debating whether or not to raise the debt ceiling as as we're very used to now. But understand historically, that was just after the Tea Party got elected in 2010. They got placed in office in January 2011. By August of 2011, they were saying they weren't going to raise the debt ceiling because at the time their big focus was taxes and spending and that's what they were all about and raising this debt ceiling sounded like it was making more spending happen. And what they didn't get, of course, that spending had already happened. And that was a no go on their historical reasons why the United States of America is the largest economy in the world, the safest place to go if there was a recession. The world and one of them is we pay our debt. And so eventually cooler heads prevailed. But my congressman voted against the bill to raise the debt. My Congressman was a 20 year incumbent. And I was surprised that as a 20 year incumbent, he wasn't able to wrestle the opposite the opposing party. And then he still didn't even vote for the bill. That was the compromise. And so I thought, as a Gen X, or maybe it's time for Gen Xers to have more leadership and get involved here in politics. And maybe I was working on a second book. And the book was called, you know, aptly called was called patriotic development, then it was the sort of third tier so you had personal development for you, professional development and your job. And I thought, patriotic development really about your community? You know, I actually got a trademarked so that was fun. And I was writing a book about it. And as I'm watching C span, because that's what dorks do. I thought I should stop writing about it, and they should start doing it. And so that was the motivation to run for Congress, the avoidance of another debt downgrade, or, you know, yeah, debt downgrade by Standard and Poor's if we continue to argue about the debt ceiling. And so I asked my wife if it would be okay. And she said, Yes. And for from 2011, through Election Day, 2012. We campaigned every day, I ran as an independent. Well, and there were three other candidates, the 20 year incumbent, the Republican opponents and the Green Party person. And, you know, we ran this was running for this is the same time period as Obama running for a second term. So I knew there'd be a lot of people voting, and we received 10,180 votes. And I'm counting. Yeah, so that was pretty cool, but not enough to topple the incumbent. So after that loss, for me, it was a crossroads. You know, I had, basically, you know, kind of bet the farm on this was my next thing to do. And I lost, and sometimes you lose elections. And so I remember the day after my wife, who had taken time off from work was, you know, putting makeup on, you know, through tears. And I'm sitting there in my pajamas, you know, at the edge of the bed. And, you know, I don't have anything to do. And so I told her by the end of the year, this is like, just, you know, early November, I will figure it out. Don't worry, it'll be okay. And I did, I started having conversations with folks. And it wasn't until a third generation New York Life financial adviser took me to breakfast and said, What are you going to do? That I admitted, I didn't know. And he said, Maybe I should meet his boss. And I told him, Well, I may have met your boss 15 years ago, when I turn the job down then because I was a board accountant. And I was just like, looking for something else to do. And I got a job offer from New York Life. But my dad still alive at that time said, No, you're an accountant, you're going to do that. And when you're an immigrant son, you listen to your dad. I mean, that's what you do, at least when it comes to career stuff. And so I did listen back then. But at this point, I thought, after having I did go have the conversation with his boss, I thought, you know, I can't, I can't write the financial laws for everyone's family. I lost the election, but I can help them navigate those laws in this business. And so no resume, just long conversations. I eventually said, Yes. And I was treated so well, because I was the guy that ran for Congress in the office. So they were so good to me. They they thought they thought a lot of me or at least they treated me as if they did, and I really appreciated that. So it was it was a very good experience.
Gabe Rissman13:55
Wow, that is such a great story. I would love to hear kind of that feeling that you experienced after the loss and and in, like moving into the transition to becoming a financial advisor. Is that something that you were really happy that you went all out? Like you said, and we're left like trying to figure something else out? Are you glad that you went all in into this? And is it something that you would consider doing again?
Jason Howell14:28
Yes to both questions. You know, it's stuff most honest, that you can do if you're running for office to go all in. You are knocking on doors, you're standing, you know, at Metro stops. You are debating a sitting congressman. And you're telling people vote for me. Let me help navigate your American dream from the purchase of the Congress, you know, from Capitol Hill. Put your trust in me. And normally congressional districts have a little over 700,000 people. And so you're saying, as opposed to everyone else here, I'm the one that will navigate your wishes on Capitol Hill for the betterment of your family and the United States of America. So it's, it's quite, it can be overwhelming. But it's an honor to be able to do that just to run, it's an honor to be able to do that. And you want to do it earnestly. You want to do it full time, you want to give it your all, you want to win. And so I can tell you, it's it's quite, quite the experience to lose, because you know, your significant others are doing it with you, more likely than not, they're running with you. And that will be part of the catalyst if I ever run again, it's it's got to be a team effort, it's got to be the right time for the rest of my family, they've got to be a part of it. You always hear about people who are, you know, running for president or something, cuz those are the elections we hear about, you know, well, you know, I gotta, I gotta sit with my family when they don't, it's like, well, a family decided, like, that's honest, that's actually should be honest, anyway, it's a good answer, anyway, because it's, it would be a true thing to say, if your family isn't into it, then it just, it doesn't work for you to go on there on your own. And so, you know, at the time, it was just my wife and I, and she was totally into it. But like I said, she feels the loss felt the loss, and a very distinct way, after, you know, it didn't work out. And when you are the candidate, and you lost everyone that campaigned with you, including friends, family, and strangers, you carry that burden. And so I was very excited to figure out what I was going to do. I had promised that we would start a family the following year. And so yeah, you want to start a family with a way to you know, earn an income, you don't get paid to run for office, unless you're some kind of weird person, like, that's running for some nefarious reason. So I had to go and do something. And it was really, really good to find an opportunity that didn't feel like I was letting everyone down. Because I had other opportunities, but I thought I, I can't just do government contracting, like, that's I was gonna, I was navigating your family. And now I'm going to be a government contractor. What does that mean? I can't just, you know, go to a software business, I can't just you know, I couldn't just do something that seemed random, it needed to be contiguous. And getting into the financial industry was part of that. Now, I learned, after some time in New York Life, that that wasn't the best place for me to do what I wanted to do for my clients. And so, you know, I always say, took me nine months to figure out that you could start your own firm. And it took me two years to quit. And so I eventually did leave in August of 2015, and started the Jason Howell company, for the purposes of being compensated for advice rather than particular products, giving myself that opportunity to speak II, with my clients in the same side of the table as my clients. And so if I'm investing money as part of the focus, and I'm building financial plans as part of the focus, if the markets go up, then my compensation goes up. When they go down, then my compensation goes down. And they know exactly what I'm being paid. And when I'm being paid, you know, that level of transparency was very attractive to me. And I decided to go for it as a fee only fiduciary from the jump, which is not the most profitable way to go for it. When you're starting a firm. There are a lot of hybrid firms that do a little of both. And I think that's probably very business savvy when you're getting started. Because when you're starting as a fee only advisor, you're talking about hundreds of dollars, you know, in your first many months, unless you have some savings to fall back on. And I had a 401k that I hadn't spent yet. And a significant other, that's also bringing income, it makes it very difficult. And so it was challenging those first couple of years, but with some stick to itiveness. And with good business. It's really nice to be on this side of things and to be over six years in.
Gabe Rissman19:26
Yeah, as an entrepreneur, did you get flashbacks to the campaign days? I'm sure there's a lot of similarities.
Jason Howell19:32
There are there are flashbacks. There are similarities to the campaign days, especially the kind of business that I decided to be a part of, you know, to me, it made sense into my network. It made sense. You know, I'm coming here to help you navigate the financial loss. I'm coming to sit with you to talk about what you want in life. You know, from the beginning. Financial Planning was life planning from the beginning. And so having a conversation about what you know, Mr. And Mrs would like to do with themselves what they'd like to do with their children, what they dream about what they worry about. These are the same conversations that you have, if you're getting into politics for, quote unquote, the right reasons. And so these were the same conversations. It just was more one family at a time, versus, you know, huge crowds and having conversations with multiple families and saying, I will help you bypassing basil, and getting you a flag from our, you know, offices, you know, no, in this case, I'm going to help one family at a time directly, personally, and get really involved in sort of on the ground in the grit. When you hear politicians talk about kitchen table budgeting, that's exactly what I'm doing. And it really creates a lot of credibility for people.
Gabe Rissman20:54
That's amazing. And then when you started, the Jason Howell company started only from the from the very beginning.
Jason Howell21:00
Yeah.
Gabe Rissman21:01
Were you VSG from the very beginning, or how did that?
Jason Howell21:05
No, I had not really learned about that I had, you know, I had one person that asked me a question about it. And I looked up some funds or things but didn't know a lot about it. And I think I was like a lot of financial advisors, even today, where people have heard about it. experienced financial advisors have heard about it. And you know, when you've only heard about something, you're left with the surface commentary. And so you're left with commentary, like, it's kind of nascent, it's not really there yet. You're left with commentary like, well, you lose money if you do that. So if you want to do that, then I guess, fine. But tell your client, you're gonna lose money. You're left with a lot of just weird myths and things and and this is like any stereotype. You know, people have stereotypes about men, about women about certain races, but then you actually have a friend, that's a such and such, and you realize, man, that was just a stereotype, but was like thinking, you research, you get educated, and you realize that stereotypes are there for a reason and cursory information. And you know, reputations are there for a reason, but that there is a lot more nuance. And so over the years, and I'm sure you're wondering about when the start was, you know, the true catalysts for me, was not only a couple of clients mentioning that this was something they were interested in, but it was 22. And if you go to my LinkedIn, you'll see on my LinkedIn that I have, you know, sustainable investing hashtag, because 2020 I was sitting, you know, in my home office, you know, like everybody else during the beginning of 2020, to spring and then into summer at the very beginning. There's the George Floyd murder. And it just layered on top, you know, just too much, too much not to sit back and think, What can I do? You know, this is a guy that ran for Congress, I thought I was going to do all these great things. When I left that I got back into my, you know, my first love, which was entrepreneurship, remember, I started that music firm back in the day, oh, yeah, you don't make a lot of money. Though, working with unsigned acts. I learned why I was the only accountant working with musicians. So this was the first time that I was actually an entrepreneur and living off of it. And every entrepreneur thinks, Well, you know, one day, I'll be incredibly successful, and then I'll be a wonderful philanthropist. And as I sat here in June of 2020, I thought, There's got to be something I can do before them. And all I did gave was just start responding to the spam emails that all financial advisors get on the topic of sustainable investing. And I got onto webinars from like, you know, get Herman and others. And I learned that the choke point wasn't the client. The choke point wasn't the fund families. The choke point for getting ESG factoring more inculcated into the financial industry was financial advisors. And that was the first webinar I was on. And I was immediately embarrassed, because I was just like everybody else, not like the 6% as they annotated in that webinar, that we're actually into it. And so from there, I started having conversations from my same podcasts that I listened to, and most people who are financial advisors who might listen to this might know about the XYPN podcast, they might know about the Kitsis advisor success podcast. And you know, as luck would have it, there are these people who were featured who were very experienced in sustainable investing. And as luck would have it, people in this part of the industry are very kind. And so I reached out to them and say, Hey, I'm, I'm starting to think about this. Can we talk? And they said, Yes, well, and when I spoke with them And you probably see this too. They were so cool. You know, when I talked about my interests, they told me as much as they could over a period of time and on the phone and and then at the end, they're like feederwatch, Casa Blanca at the end, it's like, welcome to the fight, you know, like, glad to have you. Yeah. So I just, I was a little surprised, because it can also be considered a niche. Yeah. And you know, most people are very defensive about their niches. But that's not the community. That's not what it's about. It's really about something bigger than your firm. And so it was in August of 2020, that we decided to kind of go all in. And, you know, we were serious scape, because we put wind turbines on our website. That's, I don't think you can go much further than that, himself. After we did that, we started having conversations with, you know, vendors that we've all heard of, like open invests and gitterman solution. Your solution. And it wasn't until June of 2021, where we finally you know, made some hard decisions on who we were going to work with and what we were going to do, and your steak, you know, ended up being the winner, the clear winner was your steak.org, we were very happy to partner with what you were doing, because specifically what it did, and what I still think separates your steak from a number of the solutions out there, it allows us as the advisors to not only perform the screens, but to actually execute the trades. And that's so important. It's what a couple of the other opportunities that are out there just don't allow, and that delta between making the actual trades. And, you know, finding out what you want to trade for. It's an important delta. And it's, it's difficult to outsource that on the front end, especially as you are just getting your clients involved. And so we were really happy to use your stake as a solution, update our investment policy statements with documentation about your steak, and finally be able to comfortably say that we are working with our clients on values that are important to our firm, Jason Howell company, but are important to them as well.
Gabe Rissman27:18
Wow, that's so flattering, I really appreciate those kind words. And I'd love to dive more. 2020 was the start of all this. At that time, you probably ran into 30 different acronyms and 500 different investment theses. How are you able to navigate this new field of sustainable investing? Once you committed to learning about it? What were you doing? What were some of the biggest trip ups and some of the biggest, helpful guides or successes that let you become comfortable with field?
Jason Howell27:53
Trip ups? I mean, that's not that's not even part of my vocabulary. Yeah, I had conversations with people. I mean, I think I had conversations with you even before June 2020, potentially, and certainly before June 2021. So I just opened myself up to conversations with people that I thought would be helpful in my education. And that was so helpful. And then I decided, how can I get education around this. And so I eventually bumped into the chartered Sri counselor, and decided it would be better for me to actually study this now hard, then to wait five years till I'm at the level of all these people I've been talking with. Because it's it's one of those things where it takes some time to be able to navigate the language, like you said, the acronyms, the vendors, the players, the rating agencies, the myths that are out there. How are we going to navigate all that in one fell swoop? It's difficult, but the olive branch that I found was getting an education. And like I said before, if you want to get beyond the myths, beyond the stereotypes, getting an education is the answer. When I had friends of mine contacting me post George Floyd saying, "Hey, what can I do about the black community? What What can I do?" My answer, just get more educated. That's the start. There's probably, you know, few things you can just do from the jump that are going to be consistent, but you can consistently get educated. There are documentaries on Netflix that are the 13th Right? People have saw a lot of that in 2020, watch documentaries, read books and talk to people everything that I did for the ESG. And so I was really happy to find Jennifer Coombs, who is the founder of the chartered Sri counselor designation along with the college for financial planning, and was excited and decided to dive right in and committed to passing the examination before the end of 2020 and I did on December 31. 2020 delay, I didn't know that, yes, on that day New Year's Eve, and so knocked it out and was able to not only add letters after my name, but feel really, that I had gotten sort of a base layer of what the history is, of the differences between ESG Sri impacts, about the research that's been done regarding performance, whether you have to lose money or not just the kinds of things that people don't know. And they, they can't know, because they're not necessarily committing to an education. I didn't want to be one of those people anymore. As I told you, I was. And I was motivated because of what I saw in 2020. And here's the most exciting thing for any advisor that's watching this, and is on the fence about diving into this. I don't have millions of dollars, I'm just not there yet. But I manage millions of dollars, and so to you, other financial advisors, and the thrilling idea of being able to purpose, millions of dollars towards the good towards the stakeholders of capitalism, that says to me that I can make a difference today, not when I'm a multimillionaire, but that I can make a difference personally today. And by the way, all my clients can with me and all of my clients, almost to a person wants to make a difference. That's the distinction that many of our clients have when they come to us. Yes, they want a financial plan for their family. Yes, they want to make sure they're okay. But they also have this extra mission, I would argue that most financial advisory clients, they want to do something bigger than themselves, because they have a little extra. And so they want to leave some to their kids. But again, to a person, they also want to do something for the the wider community, they are true stakeholders. And that's the opportunity we have as financial advisors to call, you know, essentially some of the wealthiest people in the country and help them do what they would like to do, which is participate to the good of what's happening in this country and beyond.
Gabe Rissman32:15
That's amazing. You're still acting as a representative. And oh, so does that mean? Were you having those types of conversations before the ESG transformation? Or did did your commitment to values based investing? Did that change the way you approach conversations with their clients? Or is it still the same? And you're throwing that in as a, as an add on?
Jason Howell32:38
Well, I'll say this, the investment policy statement has, you know, sustainable investing, Incorporated, and any client that is coming to us knows that this is our investment philosophy. So to the extent that I have to put it up front? Well, we kind of did that on the website. And so whenever a prospective client come to...
Gabe Rissman32:59
There's times...
Jason Howell33:00
I mean, yeah, that's, that's it. That's the forget CSRC winter. So they know coming to us, because we all get looked up before we get conversations that this is what we're about. And we are happy with it not just being this sort of one thing, when we think about values based investing, when we think about values based financial planning, we think, yes, about sustainable investing. But we also and this is what's unique to Jason Howell company, we also think about family governance. And so family governance typically has been relegated to the 100 millionaire families, you know, the Rockefellers, the gates is the Zuckerberg. But my particular passion when I started this firm in 2015, was to bring family governance and family office style planning to the regular high net worth, why not. And what I found in my research in that category is it is all about values. It is all about passing on to the next generation, what you believe in your work ethic, your standards for living your ideas around grace and generosity and changing the world, everything that you know you wanted to do when you were 22. But like you sort of maybe felt you couldn't when you reached your 30s and 40s. You know, these are all the things that clients that come to us care about, because we have the sustainable investing, they know they can have their values penetrate through there. But some people haven't even articulated their exact values. So our family governance process, pulls that out, gets it on paper, and we end up with what we call a family constitution. Some attorneys call it like an ethical will. And it does annotate Yes, what our standards are, what our beliefs are, what our values are, what our aspirations are for our family and for the world. And going from there. It makes it an easy transition to say we want to do sustainable investing and then going from there, it makes an easy transition to say we want to be proactive in our philanthropy. So my business partner, Doug T's, who joined the firm in 2017. So just a couple years after I started, he's been all in with this, I always tell everyone, he's a, he's a nicer guy than me, he's a better guy than me. He has spent over 12 years on a board, a nonprofit board helping the neurodiverse adults, you know, find work and employment and housing. And so, you know, he came to the firm with these values, you know, already embedded in him. And he is currently studying, because we're all about education here at the Jason Howell company. For the CAAP. I think it's the chartered advisor in philanthropy, I think that's the acronym. And so that's another one of those expensive designations, ones that take a lot of time. But it's going to be one of those education pieces that allows us to reinforce our commitment to this value structure. Yes, you know, it's easy to kind of, say and wave a flag, we do sustainable investing, like I said, it's a niche, it could work for business. But truly, if you're going to do that, from our perspective, it helps to actually help the clients identify their values, and get it on paper. And because we're working with the kinds of clients that all of us work with, there's going to be money leftover, it helps to help them proactively document identify mechanisms and tools for their philanthropy, this sort of, you know, full picture of values based planning, makes it really turnkey for our clients. It gets us excited about doing the work. It's not like doing accounting, where it's just, it's not just numbers, does it have our joy? There's a lot more joy, like the joy of financial planning. Exactly. So where's the book over here?
Gabe Rissman36:51
Yeah, you got it?
Jason Howell36:53
Yeah. So yeah, it's there's a lot more joy involved. It's very exciting. It's can be very fun, not just for us as financial advisors. But absolutely. For the clients, we try to keep a sense of humor as well. So it's not just drudgery.
Gabe Rissman37:08
That's great. Hey, could you tell a story or two about how you've had some clients come in? And maybe they already know they're looking for sustainable investing? Maybe they don't, that's uncovered in your value, but it would be awesome to hear that process of figuring out those values, leading that into the investments in the philanthropy. Yeah.
Jason Howell37:28
On the front end, when there was a prospective client who wants to meet with us, typically, to book an appointment through our Calendly. And in our Calendly link, there's just a few questions. And one of them is like, how important is sustainable investing to you? And so most of the time, I'd say, I'd say maybe half the time, let's not say most, half the time people are indifferent. That's the truth. It's no big deal. And the other half of the time, you know, they might say, yeah, it's actually pretty important to me. And so that's a nice heads up for us about, you know, how they're coming to us, and having a conversation. But I'd say the most exciting opportunity that we have been able to be a part of, was a referral from a client that we are very close to, who referred, you know, someone that they, you know, worship with to us, and they weren't even that close, but in a sort of a passing conversation, it was mentioned that, you know, they were interested in sustainable investing. And at the time, you know, they were kind of half, you know, self investing through Vanguard, but they weren't, you know, very happy with Vanguard generically. And we all know what their voting record is, as far as proxy voting, and so there's reason to be a little uncomfortable with Vanguard. And I'm certain they're improving that and working on that. But at the time, it just didn't feel right. And there was a lot more to this case, right? It's not just I do sustainable investing come over, it's, you know, what's your wealth management process, your values, stuff, all of that. So when they were referred to us, and we had conversations with them, they were really, you know, asking the hard questions. And it was important for me, I'm on the front end with the client acquisition. And so for me to have gone through Jennifer Coombs program with the CSR. I see that was important. And it was it was like, it really underscored like yeah, I'm glad I'm not, you know, Johnny come lately to this. And just like, I use a few ETFs. I, I do sustainable investing, like, No, it was it was good, that actually knew what I was talking about. It was important that we had this, you know, broad based values, kind of planning with our business that it wasn't, quote, unquote, just the investing, but it was also the family constitution. And it was also the proactive philanthropy. So when they met with us, and they met with us a couple of times before they said, Yes, they were able to say, Yeah, this is a firm that we can attach to, and I can say that it was it was is such a win because both Doug and I really enjoy the experience of working with these clients, where they are in life just before retirement. And they're, they're checking all of the boxes that fully utilize the solution that we provide. Yes, we had to work with them on philanthropy we had to work with, and we got to work with them on their philanthropy. And we still we still do. And so you know, going through what might be a community foundation, or, or going through setting up fiscal sponsorship, or whatever else, like giving them those options, that was really fun. Of course, having them move their money from an institution that wasn't precisely focused on sustainable investing, to an RIA, like ours, that is exclusively focused on that, and then parsing the data and saying, This is how your portfolio has improved. I mean, that's an asking follow up questions. And I asked you follow up questions, I think, because I'm not sure how to get that data gave. So I mean, that was that was really cool to walk through that process. And then, you know, like I say, to kind of walk through their, their family constitution with their adult kids, and they met with their adult kids. When was that? I think it was, I think it was Thanksgiving. And they had conversations around those values. That to us, when we are fully utilized as a firm, that is so exciting. Because we know this stuff is good. It's just there aren't enough rooftops to sort of scream and say, Hey, this is what you're looking for, about, you know, most of the money is with the large big box finance firms. You know, though the Merrill Lynch's the Morgan Stanley's, the UBS's, and on and on, and they don't know, all of those clients, those trillions of dollars worth of clients, they don't know many of them about the RIA option. And of those who might even hear about it, they don't know about a firm like ours, that will provide this comprehensive view. And we use words like comprehensive and holistic so much, I try to avoid those words. And so you know, the these different ways to poke at the same thing, which is, you know, what are your values? And how can we help you execute those, if you hadn't been able to over the 30 years of work for your life, that you'd be able to now that you're in your maybe 50s and 60s, and are just really intentional about it. That's, that's what we do with our clients. And we are, we're just so happy to have found a solution like yours gave where we don't have just those two poles. It's not just the philanthropy in the family constitution, but we can go into the heart of things, which is the investing and make it happen. They're two.
Gabe Rissman42:33
Very cool, I'd love to dive into two things there. The first, and I'll just go on a time. On the... you're saying that people don't always know, to look for RAs and to know, to look for you? Are you finding that ESG or sustainable investing as part of the marketing is able to reach some of those people that otherwise wouldn't have known to look?
Jason Howell42:54
I wouldn't venture that guess. Sure. Now, Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch are talking about sustainable investing as well. And so, you know, we we compete, regardless of of that particular moniker, I think what sustainable investing does is it does give you an opportunity to say something more than you might have said, just as an RIA, once someone is going for independence, you know, there may be another layer. And some people, as I said, about half, don't care. And so it's not like you're gonna attract every client out there. Because you say sustainable investing, no more so than if you said, you're really good at life insurance. It's just some people don't care. But it does give you purpose. It does give you a I don't know how to pronounce this very well read as the Tatar. I think it is, you know, reason for living, when you're having your practice and that kind of confidence about why you're doing what you're doing. It does translate, and it does give you space to say, well, if they weren't interested in us, they didn't like our wind turbines. That's fine. You know, I don't have to question who I am and what I am and what I've done like they don't, they don't like my wind turbines. Or if they do like it, then I can be like, great, I know what matters to you. And it makes it very turn key to say this is how I can provide value to these people who are coming to us. And so in that sense, it's really about creating clarity for both our clients and our firm.
Gabe Rissman44:25
Love that. What its purpose is super important to you. And I love that you've built your firm around that. How, how do you communicate and tell some stories? Or what are some of the stories that you tell when they ask, as I'm sure many people do, does sustainable, what is sustainable investing actually do? What impact does it create? How am I How am I helping? I would love to hear if you do get those questions and how you incorporate and tie the purpose to sustainable investing.
Jason Howell44:59
There is this concept that's in business. And you know, Milton Friedman talks about, you know, stockholders and that being the most purpose, the biggest purpose for business. And, you know, it's kind of silly, if you've seen the movie don't look up, I think that that tells a good enough story available on Netflix, don't look up. And then there's the idea of stakeholder, you know, capitalism, which is, and I did learn this with a CSRC, but a guy with a very similar name. So see, have coined the phrase stakeholder capitalism, and you'll, you'll be on point, next time you're on a podcast like this. But most of the people coming to us, it's not the, it's not the back end of the value of stakeholder capitalism, that's confusing. It's just not now it would help if you don't use a phrase that people you know, haven't heard, or may have been a lightning rod phrase, when we talk about what we're doing, it's pretty clear, we don't have to explain it. Perhaps the only thing that gives anyone trepidation is, well, I, you know, they want to do it. But then I heard that performance is an issue. And so that's, that's the part to help them through. It's to help folks say, in particular, our firm in particular, is, for an example, not just doing impact investing, you know, it's getting the vocabulary is important. But also getting the actuality of what you're doing is also important, impact investing is very likely taking a hit on performance. But that's not what all of sustainable investing is. And so much like some of the institutional investing that's happening. And, you know, as the forum for sustainable investing in United States, the US sift will tell you, about a third of all investing has some kind of environmental, social or governance factor attached to it. That's a lot of money, by the way, $20 trillion or so, you know, 17, actually 17 trillion. There, there is not a bunch of folks in our industry saying, oh, let's just, you know, make everything nicey nicey. And lose money. Like that's just not happening with institutional wealth. It's just not. And it's not happening with our firm either. And so one of the things we do to help mitigate some of the concerns, concerns that people might have, because they, they're on board, typically with, you know, wanting to change the world, wanting to save the world wanting to be a part of the good, I haven't met anyone that's not on board with that idea. I have spoken to people who are concerned about some of the myths that they've heard. And so that's where being deft with your vocabulary, and your understanding of it is important, and being able to speak to what they're concerned about. So for our firm, we did know 30 screens through your state.org broken into five categories, we use your technology to find out, you know how we could execute what our firm believed in, and that clients that we work with would believe in, but then we went to another level. And we use other sources until your state gets the isn't embedded in there. And we looked at the the list of options of exchange traded funds, for example. And we looked at the expense ratios. So how much clients would have to pay, we looked at performance history, we looked at the time that these funds had been around. So they're just generic history history, we looked at the volume of trading that's happening with these funds, we looked at the dollars of assets that are already invested in these funds. Again, using other sources, generic source, yahoo finance will give you this morning star will give you the some of the stuff I mean, it's it's not hard to find some of these other bullet points. And so we found these other bullet points. And then we did an additional screen on top of the screen that your stake helps us do. And we came up with the model that works for the majority of our clients, we will always keep looking at those particular funds. And maybe changing some of them as time goes by. Our allocation though is based on efficient market theory. That's not too fancy. You know, many advisors do that. Our the way we work is based on strategic asset allocation for their goals. That's not too fancy. But we, like 17 trillion of the other dollars in the United States of America are adding five factors on top of what we're doing as professional investors for our clients. And that's what the conversation, really, I believe should be with people who are interested in this, but are concerned explain to them your investment philosophy before you added factors for ESG and then add on the factors for ESG. And then they will believe that you actually have some vision of what's going on that you understand when the Fed is his speaking what he's talking about or she's talking about the chair that you understand what inflation means to the, you know, the economy, you understand in the jobs report, you understand taxes and how that might affect things. They just want to know, are you looking at real financial advisor? Or are you like a Birkenstock wearing such and such that decided to get into this space, we allay those concerns by speaking to you know, where we've come from? Because we weren't born into this. We didn't do this from the jump. And what we've added to.
Gabe Rissman50:30
That's amazing. We're almost coming up on time, I got to ask this last question.
Jason Howell50:35
Sure.
Gabe Rissman50:35
Where do you think ESG is headed?
Jason Howell50:38
I think it's headed towards every other factor that investment analysts use to analyze investments. Okay. It's it's the kind of data that is being used on us already. You know, if you ever study how credit reporting agencies figure out whether or not to extend us credit, it's not just about do you have money in your bank account? And do you have a job? I mean, that would have been so much easier. And it would be so much easier for so many other people to get credit there if they're the five C's. And I don't even remember all the five C's, but I teach this at my alma mater, Georgia University. And one of them was like characteristics. What what is that amorphous phrase? How do you get characteristics? What do you know about me? They know about you. It's called data. You know, capital, I didn't give you might Net Worth, where did you get this information? Now, there's there's a lot that is being done with us and has been done with us for many decades. When it comes to data. Why does Amazon know you're into? Why does Netflix know what you're into data, it's just good business. And data is just good investing. So we have been using many different financial tools, you know, all these different theories and things to be able to figure out how we can beat the market, how we can create alpha for our clients. And I see factors associated with environmental, social and governance as just another layer. Another opportunity to see if we can be more successful as investors than our competitors, to see if we can be more valuable to our clients than other advisors may be valuable to our clients. My argument is at the especially when it comes to risk, that reality is already there. It's already baked in to E, S, and G. Now you can add more to that whether or not you believe having a certain level of diversity on a board makes a difference in the CAGR for the company. You can add to that and say if you believe that, wow, if you actually support the planet and the environment, then maybe you know, you'll do better business, maybe more people will come to you maybe they'll create more revenue and more profit for you. You can look into that too. You can make your assessment, I don't have to defend how you make your assessment on the ESG factors. The only thing that I can share that I believe. And I I would say I know to be true based on how much time I've spent in the numbers world is that this data is going to help anyone that's serious about looking into how to do better for their clients and for their clients portfolios. And that is the future of sustainable
Gabe Rissman53:30
I love the way you ended that. Jason, it's been amazing having you on. Thank you so much for joining. Oh, and and your story is really incredible. I think it's it's something that a lot of people love to hear. So I really appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me on game. I do hope people enjoy hearing the story. It's your story, right? So I do hope you enjoy it but a continued success with everything that you're doing continue to enhance your steak.org it's a really important tool, I think for the industry and for the profession. And I look forward to seeing what you do next. Amazing.
Jason Howell54:09
You too! Bye bye.